Saturday, November 12, 2005

Polygyny

* Profoundity Ferret is back again where the discussion ended last time.

Why Islam Permits Polygyny

Let us take this example. Man and woman are married, the woman after some quite long time is discovered to be barren and the husband needs a kid so badly (that is his natural right I guess), so the only viable solution is to have kids from another sexual relationship, either adultery or legal marriage. Legal marriage to a second wife in non-Islamic societies is not possible; a man has to divorce the first (barren) woman in order to marry the second, a case in which this barren woman will be left a lone and the possibility of her to get into legal relationship is rather low. While in Muslim societies a man need not to divorce the first woman in order to get into another legal sexual relationship, a case in which the first woman can still be married to him and eligible to all her rights.

By the same talking, what would be a case of a woman is turned out to be permanently ill and that illness prevents her from satisfying her husband needs ( as part of her natural duties to him as partner, nothing more nothing less), which one is fairer to her, divorcing her keeping her married to him and enjoy his full support and security?

We Willy-nilly know that gender ratio in almost all societies to be around 3 women more per man, thus, the question that remains how could this excess ratio, get husband, security and fulfillment? Let us keep an answer to this question for open discussion.

Reality VS theory

Before any of the readers who disagree on the issue of Polygyny starts hitting their keyboards furiously , let me say this: I know that all of the benefit above besides others are just in theory for us Muslim to brag about how great and universal our religion while in practice, it is totally grim situation. Polygyny is more attached to

Some rich people who think that with the adequacy of his wealth he can financially support more than one house.
Villagers, need I explain why?
Turbaned and scholars: what surprise me is that the majority of turbaned I know of in our society has more than one wife, knowing that fact that he is not even financially secured as the majority of his financial resources come from mounting the platforms in religious occasions. Such people who make speech to their congregations about politics, Islamic laws, inciting them to demonstrate for their rights, etc. how much time do they spend with their wives and kids every day if he has two- three families? How much time can he allocate to take care of his two –three families, read, search, study, prepare to mount the platform, etc.? How can he stand to their needs?

Conclusion:

While it is permitted in the religion and I can neither defend nor justify it because it is God permission, I ask to restrict Polygyny through the judicial system as it's attached with problems and harmful consequences on the societies by irresponsible applications.
I hope government legislates a law soon, which restricts number of children per family. Why? Because situations of ALL villages are catastrophic and the consequences are far from explanation, villagers do not want to understand that they complain all the time that their salaries are not enough for their survival and yet they produces kids every other year. !

16 Comments:

Blogger The Joker said...

restricting child birth is not a solution at all. You just said earlier in the post that its everyone's right to reproduce.

As for polygymy, its just another example of how islamic laws are just outdated. What is the best excuse for it? Barren woman? In this day and age we have nice big and small gadgets that can tell you everything about your health.. they can even tell you what you suffer from, before marrige in a quick check up.

Besides, its not fair if the man is unable to reproduce.. does the woman get to sub in a fresh younger man?

Its just a result of our society's masculine domination. The way I see polygymy is its a cheap attempt by insecure men to prove their sadistic, under-question masculinity by getting a second mistress/wife, usually a much younger, unassisted, helpless individual from a poor background, usually from economically suffering middle eastern countries, to satisfy an old pig's ego.

As to the other excuse, what if the woman was ill? Its the husband's duty to stay by her side until she gets better, not piss around with someone else.

4:25 AM  
Blogger The Joker said...

I'm sorry I forgot to tackle the third excuse. As to the Male-Female ratio, its because men usually die younger than women. For reasons mostly related to health (smoking, drinking) and because of political reasons (war). So all you're left with is an old hag between 70 and 80. Show em what you got, stud ;)

4:29 AM  
Blogger $iLveR GiRL said...

“…and the husband needs a kid so badly”
What if HE was barren? Why can’t I go and marry someone else. As a woman, I’ll even want kids much more than he does.

In a written marriage contract, can I, as a wife, demand that a no-polygamy clause get added? And that if he desperately wants to marry someone else, I should get divorced first?

If possible, that’s exactly what I am gonna do. When it comes to this, I trust no religion.. I trust no family law. I only trust my own regulations unless I really trust the guy. For me, polygamy is invalid.

Who needs the support and security of someone who’d give up on his wife because she’s ill. Yrooo7 ywaleee..! Elbaab yosaa3 jamal!

3:55 PM  
Blogger The Joker said...

you go girl!

4:11 PM  
Blogger moodZ said...

"In a written marriage contract, can I, as a wife, demand that a no-polygamy clause get added?"

You certinaly can, not only that, you can even demand the right to divorce from the man.

4:53 PM  
Anonymous Profundity Ferret said...

(What if HE was barren? Why can’t I go and marry someone else. As a woman, I’ll even want kids much more than he does.)

It is not only in Islam that a woman cannot marry more than one man in legal sexual relationship, apart from that she can of course! Now back to the question of “ why not Polyandry?

It is pretty known that woman’s physiologically and psychologically different from that of men. The woman is monogamous by her very nature. Plus, in all societies, cultures and ideology, old and new family is leaded by a man and can we imagine how families headed by more than one man and how the family in human’s definition can be with one woman for several men.

Furthermore, if man is married to more than one woman, and produce kids, each one of the kids would certainly know who is the father and who is the mother, while in polyandry, how one can identify who is the father and mother? Can medical experiments do that with mixed DNAs?
Or shall we depend on “eeny meeny mino mo” method to identify the father. Polygyny is lesser of evils than polyandry.

(In a written marriage contract, can I, as a wife, demand that a no-polygamy clause get added? And that if he desperately wants to marry someone else, I should get divorced first?)

Of course you cannot write that in a contract. Why? You cannot put clauses in any contract, not only Islamic contracts, preventing the other counter-party from practicing his/ her right? By the same talking, for instance he can not stipulate in the contract to force you not to have kids if you wanted, simply because it is your right to have kids, work, etc. Who said it is his right? The holy book says so, for me it is binding enough!

Please also that Islam did not encourage polygamy, rather, it just permits the Polygyny as it is universal religion and it should not lack any law should any need arises. Looking at modern history we saw how German started to think of solutions within their ideology for the shortage in men after WWII, and they found that the only viable solution is polygamy!

(I trust no religion.. I trust no family law. I only trust my own regulations unless I really trust the guy. For me, polygamy is invalid.)

Well, if you trust no religion then I guess the above won’t be needed ha : )
polygamy of a sort is widely carried on in Europe and America. The difference is that while the Western man has no legal obligations to his second, third or fourth mistresses and their children, the Muslim husband has complete legal obligations towards his second, third or fourth wife and their children. Don’t you trust the west secular law also? If no, then may I know which system of laws you trust? Because apparently secular law does not say no for polygamy. ( as in not legal relationship with multi girl friend) : )

At last, for those who is against polygamy in principle, why are you limiting your argument on the first wife which will be hurt, etc. from this action, and totally ignoring the second wife, she is woman too, and she needs ,wants and supports that, she has no problem with that, that is why she accepted that , so why are yoy defending the first wife status and ignoring the second woman needs and they are both woman!

6:41 PM  
Blogger moodZ said...

"(In a written marriage contract, can I, as a wife, demand that a no-polygamy clause get added? And that if he desperately wants to marry someone else, I should get divorced first?)

Of course you cannot write that in a contract."

You can!! Live with it pal, YOU CAN!! How many sources do you want me to quote?

10:27 PM  
Blogger The Joker said...

Ferret.. you make a very convincing case... Especially with the "why only care about the first woman, there's also the second woman.." Its an open and shut case man.

Away from the sarcasm, no matter what set of laws silver believes in.. if polygamy doesnt make sense.. its just that.. who cares if she's a jahova's witness.. explain why you think its not a bad idea, don't go chasing her affiliation.

And whats wrong with DNA testing? I think it will save you problems wondering who the father is.. especially that its not the 1400's anymore.

"The holy book says so, for me it is binding enough!"

Basically this is what it gets down to. If this is what you back your statement with, then I can't go anywhere arguing with you, because you have your back to a wall there. If it was another reason behind your logic, I can then challenge it.

10:45 PM  
Blogger HijabIsOverrated said...

ASA:

In my contract my husband reneged his right to a second wife voluntarily. I didn't say he couldn't have a wife, but he chose to give up that option. Thus, no where in the contract does it say I forbid it or he is against it. It's just not for him and he doesn't need a loop hole down the line.

We showed it to the ones who have knowledge in such things and it was approved. :)
-----

It is a myth that women are made up to be satisfied with only one person. Know that most women dread being with the same man all her life. Society has pressured the females into the role of taking what we get and just dealing with it. While for the man this is not the case. The man has soooooooo many options if the woman just doesn’t fit the bill.
---------------

2 years ago my Husband and I watched a documentary on primitive tribes in Latin America. Anyway, one tribe was run like a co-op. The men hunted for the food and when they cault it they shared it with everyone in the tribe. The women could have more than one husband. It wasn't allowed the other way around. Every man in the tribe KNEW who his child was. They helped watch the children as well when the mother cooked, cleaned etc.. Each husband spent a season with the wife I think so there wasn't any confusion over which a child was whom. These people are so ancient and yet they didn't bust each other up side the head because they had to share a wife. Its just not an issue with them. The men didn't fight over leading the house. Usually, the oldest person male and female had say of the tribe and that was it. When peopled married or the harvest came, causing other tribes to come together in congregation the women didn’t socialize with people outside of their tribe like the men did. Each tribe was very protective of their women much like Arabs and Muslims are now. In fact when the celebrations took place the men and women didn’t celebrate together in order to insure that the men from other tribes didn’t talk to the women. Yet these same women could and did marry more than one man. One woman had 6 husbands and no one cut each other up over it. I think society fosters the attitude it best thinks benefits the ruling class. In most cases most of the benefits are toward the men and not the women in Arab and Muslims countries.

____

The second tribe lived as a co-op as well. This tribe allowed monogamy but they had festivals a few times a year where they would basically let the women chose a man from the tribe and have sex with them. They showed this tribe 20-30 years ago just meeting white people for the 1st time and then they flashed to the present. WOW!! They were completely different once others started shaping there view. The tribe didn't understand jealousy, procession, violence. They never fault or had wars. The women weren't looked at as property to be jealous about or processed only for themselves. After the whites came and made others aware of there existence they completely changed. The men started treating the women badly, fighting and dominating them. The men traveled miles to work in the city and pretty much stop hunting. They suddenly needed, mirrors, tooth brushes, shorts, bra's, soap, and stupid little gadgets.

Everyone complained that life is harder now, it seems like they need money for everything when before it wasn't an issue. Everyone is possessive, getting greedy, and the community was failing because the kids were learning traits they never saw until the white people came.
____


Just somehing to ponder about. :)

ASA

1:03 AM  
Blogger TariqKhonji said...

Hey moodz...can you give me the sources for the contract stuff please?

Thanks.

7:29 PM  
Anonymous Profundity Ferret said...

emoodz

I based my statement that that clause cannot be written down in the marriage contract on Alwaeli lectures. However, I have made my homework in that respect&collected enough opinion in that regard to make me believe and convinced that you are right, it can be written because marrying second or third woman is an option, and a man is free to give up his options. If it was a must then no, it cannot be written.

10:52 PM  
Anonymous ExCluSiVe said...

Firstly, men and women can add in certain stipulations to the marriage contract. However, if the woman wishes to break the contract sometime in the future, there are some certain conditions that have to be fulfilled in order for her to get her divorce. You can find these conditions in this book.
الوسيط في شرح قانون الأحوال الشخصية
ابراهيم عبدالرحمن
دار الثقافة 1999
Secondly, a woman can divorce her husband but with a good enough reason. I believe that getting a second wife without my consent is a reason enough for me for filing for a divorce! Surprisingly, even though it is stated in our Shar'ia, unfortunately, most people are not aware of it! Divorceخلع) ) is vividly stated but again with conditions. You can find further information on the above subject in the aforementioned book.

Thank you

9:36 PM  
Anonymous Don Cox said...

In Britain, a divorced woman or man has no particular difficulty in finding another partner. That is often the reason for the divorce anyway. Often a second marriage is more successful than the first. And where did somebody get the idea that women "by nature" are monogamous?

8:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

long distance relationship

8:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

boy meet world

10:08 AM  
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1:25 AM  

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