Thursday, February 02, 2006

Where have all the cowboys gone?

I have a right to eat Danish cheese and butter and milk and chocolate and all these nice little things... why are some governments banning them? Good people of \"We have a right\".. I have a right to buy Danish stuff... don\'t you agree? Or does your effort only focus on pushing the last call at the bar an hour later?

Liberals in Bahrain and beyond.. I am disappointed with you! I didn\'t talk about this story for a couple of days just hoping against hope that you might wake up and say something.. but the only thing you came up with is \"Oh well we can ask them nicely and they might apologize.\" NO ONE NEEDS TO APOLOGIZE! Someone made fun of Islam.. just make fun of him back... make fun of his religion... make fun of his mother... just please.. don\'t kill him and don\'t take away my cheese.

You can go to a Danish court and file a lawsuit against the guy himself... although the judge is gonna have a laugh and pass the file into the fireplace.. but that\'s something you can do.. but how can you punish the whole country of Denmark, and everyone that enjoys their fine products? And the liberals are standing there like posts.

Long story short... no one needs to apologize... and the liberals should have used this opportunity to explain what freedom of speech is to people that find this concept challenging.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you trying to seek attention here! to be against everyone? I HAVE A RIGHT TO BLAH BLAH BLAH .. you have no rights in this country baba,

if someone draw your dad in a newspaper you will go crazy but your prophet HUH MY PROPHET? WHO CARES.

fine its only one person who did this but almost all Danish supporting him they deserve that.
and if you want any of their products you can cray :D.

take it easy though

Anon-4 ever

5:04 PM  
Blogger Ella said...

man, no ones stopping u or is holding a gun to your head and said look man, stop buying their cheese ( i must admit i love their products as well ), but this is the only way our side of the world thought of doing something for themselves. and that is to stand up for islam, whats so wrong about that. you speak about the libreals in your region, but really, do u see anything wrong with what their doing. ask anyone if this boycott is pathetic, waste of time and useless and you'll hear them say " no, were standing for whats right ".
who gives a shit about the danish economy, they can suffer for a short time, wont make a big differnce really, and even if it does why do you care so much.
ooh ya.. i know --- your cheese is too special and valuable to you. psssh -- get over it .. their are other cheese that are much more tastier then that!:)

all in all ... what were doing is good for us, and right. and were not gonna beg for an apology, they'll come running to us one way or the other.

6:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am in agreement with the idea of a boycott, and to those of you calling for a boycott, good for you. The idea of a boycott is to make a choice not to use a product. If I am left without the choice due to government control, it's not really a boycott, it's an embargo. So as I stated, I agree. I will choose what products I use, not you.
Fortunately, if Bahrain decides to employ an embargo, they will find themselves in international court for breaking trade agreements.
I'm still trying to figure out why the uproar now. I saw the same cartoons published in a local blog months ago, and they were from an article published months before that. What's taken people so long? Or is this a case of countries jumping on the bandwagon?
Also, if someone drew my dad in the paper, i'd probably cut it out and send him a copy! He'd get a laugh out of it.

12:17 AM  
Blogger Gardens of Sand said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:02 AM  
Blogger Gardens of Sand said...

Should there be a distinction between slander and freedom of speech? In the United States, a person can get sued for defamation and libel for public hateful/negative comments made against another person.

So if there is a distinction, why not apply it here? I am not for the boycott or against it for that matter, it should be a personal decison. I am not for threats and violence, but that isn't really what I wanted to write about.

You said to make fun of his mother etc.. do you think tit for tat is the best way for someone to express his/her disdain of an act?? hmmmm not a very progressive way, me thinks.

I thought I was a liberal, maybe I am not, coz I was offended by the cartoons. But if some liberals aren't, well I am disappointed in them.

8:03 AM  
Blogger TariqKhonji said...

"Should there be a distinction between slander and freedom of speech? In the United States, a person can get sued for defamation and libel for public hateful/negative comments made against another person.

So if there is a distinction, why not apply it here?"

There is a distinction...but Mohammed is not alive today so he can't take anyone to court. Only the person who has been slandered can take the issue to court, accoridng to the laws in the US and elsewhere. That is the reason.

4:22 PM  
Blogger TariqKhonji said...

And also, it's satire, which is a protected form of speech, especially when you are talking about public figures.

4:26 PM  
Blogger Gardens of Sand said...

That is true, the prophet (pbuh) is dead so he cannot sue for defamation. I don’t think he would were he alive today. However, don’t you think the cartoons fall into the hate-speech category? In the some countries, the deliberate use of hateful speech is considered a criminal offence because it falls under incitement to hatred.

Did you know that in parts of Europe, holocaust denial is hate-speech? In Autralia, there conduct that incites hatred against or serious contempt for, or involves revulsion or severe ridicule of another on the grounds of his race or religious beliefs is prohibited? In inciting hatred against any identifiable group (race, sex, religion) is an indictable offense with maximum terms of two to fourteen years.

So clearly there is some sort of distinction between one’s rights to free speech and hate-speech. It might be a stretch to get this settled in courts, but why not give it a try? The widespread bigotry or Islamophobia speading all over the world and its manifestations has to stop, so why not try stopping it through peaceful means? It is a far better solution that violence, threats and rallies, and a much better one than shrugging the matter off so easily as satire and freedom of speech.

9:06 PM  
Blogger TariqKhonji said...

Garden of Sands,
This is a relatively complex issue and I was recently debating the same issue with myself and others but I came to teh conclusion that a cartoon or an article or anything else that is critical of a religion is not hate speeech in itelf. Hate speech is the respone that it received which calls for violence. In other words, the cartoon did not call on anyone to take up arms, it is the reaction to it that is doing so. You understand where I'm coming from?
Btw, I posted a reply on your blog on this issue too.

As for your following statement:
"Did you know that in parts of Europe, holocaust denial is hate-speech?"
Yeah, I did know that and that is a really stupid law. If someone has evidence that the holocaust didn't happen or wasn't as wide spread as people are saying let htem come forward and present it. Let hte public judge if he/she is right or wrong. To stifle a debate in this way, no matter how silly it may seem, is just plain wrong.

7:29 AM  
Blogger Wolfwood said...

"I saw the same cartoons published in a local blog months ago, and they were from an article published months before that. What's taken people so long? Or is this a case of countries jumping on the bandwagon?"

Notice that some of the most recent scandals/problems/whatever in countries participating in this ridiculous boycott seem to have been swept under the table (i.e. the Hajj stampede, playing musical chairs for the Kuwaiti Emirship, the double standards of certain elected officials towards "unislamic" behaviour and their letting those with influence getting away with it, etc.)? They were waiting for something to take the heat off them and this was it...

12:40 PM  
Blogger The Joker said...

Oh YES! That was the word! Embargo, not boycott...thats what I meant.

Another nice word is slander.. of course slander laws don't apply on public figures.. or else half the world will be on trial.

Its part of the western culture to make fun of religion.. authority.. the establishment.. because the most serious topics can be the funniest. Besides... that is the clearest indicator in this day and age whether or not you really have freedom of speech.

We're told that we have freedom of speech in Bahrain... but if someone remotely refers to one of the above, the ministry of information switches them off.

5:37 PM  
Blogger Nameless said...

Are we not going to hold accountability for making fun of Jews and Christians? I was just watching the Doha Debates today and Muna Eltehawy said that the Arab media has done it so many times and refused to apologise claiming freedom of speech.

This has really been blown out of proportion. Unbelievable at what is happening at Lebanon - fire at the consulate... u make fun, we retaliate with violence... this will only encourage them to draw more offensive cartoons or perhaps really self-critical...we give out an image and when they mock about it, we cry about it.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gardens of Sand;

Libel only applies to the living. Since you must show malicious intent, it is very difficult to prove. Few cases are brought to court and fewer win.

The cartoons were made by Danes for a Danish audience. Danish Muslims were had every right to complain if they were offended. As for everyone else, if it’s not your country, it’s not your business. You can’t tell foreigners what they can and cannot publish in their own newspapers anymore than they can tell you. It’s disrespecting of sovereignty.

Middle-eastern newspapers regularly print very vile things against Jews, Christians, and other non-Muslims. Yet people in non-Muslim countries are not threatening boycotts, attacking embassies, or demanding apologies from the newspapers or governments.

We all live in a globalized world now, where millions of other people don’t hold the same things sacred. We have to get used to it.


10:37 PM  

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